Watermark Interview - To Everything, Turn, Turn, Turn...
03-29-2006
by Brenten Gilbert

In August of last year, the husband and wife duo known as Watermark recorded A Grateful People. The live album features several guest appearances from friends they've made along the way and represents the end of a season in the lives of Nathan and Christy Nockels, the end of Watermark.

CMCentral.com managed to catch up with Christy Nockels to take a walk down memory lane, discuss the album, what the future holds and much more. Below is the transcription of that conversation.

CMCentral.com (brenten gilbert): What is your earliest childhood memory related to music?

Christy Nockels: Oh wow! That is a trip down memory lane

(laughs)

My earliest childhood memory related to music would have to be singing in church when I was about 5 or 6. My dad was a pastor, so I was raised doing solos - even when I was really little. That, and probably getting ready for that, which would have been sitting with my mom at the piano. She was a piano teacher my whole life. She still is actually. She still has about 30 students at her private piano practice. All my life, from the time I was my son's age 5 ½ - probably even before that- she was so faithful to just sit with me whenever I wanted to sing. She would just play whatever I wanted her to play. She tried to teach me piano many, many times but I think I was a little too A.D.D. for it.

(laughs)

I learned things by ear so much that it was hard for me to get the whole theory thing down. So, probably just sitting with my mom. She says I could hold the melody and she could harmonize with me when I was 5 or 6. I owe a lot of that ear training and stuff to her. She was just so faithful to sit with me as long as I wanted, just playing and singing.

That's fun. What kinds of music did you listen to growing up?

My younger years, it was definitely all Christian music. My dad has always been a Southern Baptist pastor, but our churches were always more contemporary in worship. We always had Amy Grant going on in our house or an artist called Honeytree from way back then who I absolutely loved - I think her name was Nancy Honeytree. I also loved Evie and the Imperials. We were raised on all of that stuff. I'll never forget on Saturday. We would clean up the house on Saturday mornings before we did something fun. It's one of the fondest memories I have, even though it was terrible to clean the house. My dad would just crank the stereo and it would usually be the Continental Singers, The Imperials, Amy Grant, or something like that and we would be cleaning and dancing around. That was the only place we got to dance.

(laughs)

At what point did you realize that music might be a path that you could pursue?

Probably in junior high or high school. That's when I really knew that music was what I wanted to do with my life. I just didn't know what that would look like, because I was raised around a lot of Southern Gospel and more conservative styles and I knew that I didn't really want to do that. I didn't really know how that would fit in, but I just knew I wanted to sing. I probably really started writing legitimate songs when I was 14 or 15, but I wrote poetry from the time I was probably 7 or 8. The poems were always about God or creation and I still have a lot of those.

It's kind of fun to look back at some of the things I wrote back then. . .

(laughs)

Yep, it's hilarious.

So, how did you meet Nathan?

I met Nathan. . . Well, it's really kind of woven through several years because we were acquaintances for a couple of years before we saw each other out in Estes Park, Colorado. But, August of 1993 - that is when we actually were both single and interested in each other. I met Charlie Hall at a church camp when I was 16 and that's when I really started hearing about Nathan. Charlie was his best friend - we're still good friends - and now, of course, he's a worship leader with Passion and he's on Six Steps Records. So, I always knew about Nathan and I always thought he was just so darling and wonderful, but he always had the same girlfriend in high school. They were really just good friends, but I never thought he was an option, so I just dated his friends.

(laughs)

So, 1993 is when we really saw each other out there. I was still kind of dating somebody, but we ended up spending the entire week together and I really knew that week that, if it was an option, I wanted to marry him. I thought he was "it".

Good call. What are some of your fondest memories of recording and performing music?

Probably our independent stuff in Oklahoma City. That was so fun because we made an independent record the first year we were married. We were thinking, "Man, we really get to do this!" Even though it was independent, we didn't care. We thought it was just the most amazing thing ever. There was a guy, Trent Austin - he's a worship leader in Edmond OK now, who we are still really good friends with who played on that very first record and also played on The Purest Place. We are actually really good friends with all of those guys who played on that first album. I think that has been the most memorable stuff for us. Just the people who have been a part of it all. When we all get together, we have so many stories to tell and we just laugh until we cry about stuff that we thought was cool back then and things we've tried in the studio that was just ridiculous.

Then, getting to have a symphony or an orchestra play on one of your songs is always just amazing. Nathan and I just look at each other as if to say, "This can't be happening." Just along the way we've had so many moments that make you think, "Wow! This is so incredible."

And it all leads up to A Grateful People.

Yes.

So what can you tell us about the upcoming release?

Well this record really came about because we met with Rocketown after we had fulfilled our contract, which was for four records. And we were just not at a place where we felt like we could sign again. You know, four records equals just about eight years of your life and we just didn't think that we could commit to that right now, with a 5-year-old and a 3-year-old. We just weren't at a place where we could do it, so the Lord just really started working in our hearts about the possibility of phasing it out. It's hard to even explain, because to us it makes sense, but to a lot of people it doesn't. I think when Rocketown knew we weren't going to re-sign, they wanted to do a best of record. They asked us if we wanted to be a part of it and if we could give them two new songs for the project. We absolutely wanted to be a part of it, especially after we made the decision to phase out Watermark. I think they would have made a best of project with or without us so, we wanted this for closure. We felt like we could've ended with The Purest Place. It's a great record to end on. It was my favorite record we've ever done and I believe in that record so much.

So, we thought that if we were going to do some sort of a "best of" release, it should definitely have some guts behind it. We started thinking about the possibility of having it at our church and making it a live recording. We've never done a live record as Watermark. From there, we got the idea to gather some friends that have been on the journey with us. We got in touch with Chris Tomlin, Shane and Shane, Point of Grace, Charlie Hall and a guy named Ed Cash, a producer and a friend. And I just remember praying about it, saying, "Okay God, this has to be from you if we're going to pull all these people together for one day." We made some calls and in three days it was all pulled together. Our church was willinng to do whatever and it just came together. So that was very much a confirmation to us that it was from God. For all of these people to be willing and able to get in there on that one night, without rehearsing. We only had to do one minor fix for one of the artists that sang, too. It was just amazing for it all to come together like that and to be a part of that. We had Louie Giglio speak that night, too, though he's not actually on the record. It was just a really good closure for us and a really good way for us to recognize that this season is ending. This record is a representation of that as well showing that we are leaning into this decision and this next season and whatever it brings. So the record is very much a part of it all and we are excited about it. It gives us a lot of closure.

And it really sounds like you guys had a blast recording it. . .

Yeah, we did. It was amazing. It was a great day. We had a dinner together that night with a little reception afterwards. It was a really blessed night. My family came in for it and both of my brothers were here and they all stayed at our house that night. As we were driving home, I looked at Nathan and said, "I feel like we just got married again." It's that feeling of all your best friends and your family around you and you're the center of attention. Nathan and I really don't like to have all the attention focused on us and we felt that way at our wedding. You know that feeling, when you just want everybody to stop staring and you're ready to get in your car and get away. It was the same feeling we had when we drove away from our wedding. It was pretty amazing but, at the same time, I'm really glad that it's over just because it was so tiring and emotionally draining.

Good and bad emotions all at once.

Yeah.

You've mentioned the idea of "phasing out" Watermark a few times now. Why don't you go ahead and explain a little more of what that means.

Yeah, it's just funny. Nathan and I both feel so wired for ministry and we've always felt that because we were both raised in that environment. His parents weren't exactly in ministry, but by the age of 15, he was in some sort of ministry all the time just because of playing and writing. He and Charlie Hall had a group called "Nathan and Charlie" for a while, really original but they had a neat ministry within a tri-state area around OK. We've just always felt like our hearts are multifaceted in the area of ministry because we like to do all sorts of different things. For example, Nathan loves producing, we both love the Passion stuff and being involved with that, we both like going to churches to lead worship without doing concerts and we love doing concerts. I think after a while with two kids we just realized that we can't do it all. It just got to the point where it felt like we weren't doing anything to the best of our abilities, because we were just spread so thin. We had been praying and we just weren't sure if we wanted to sign with anybody. We even sat down with some other labels but it just didn't seem right. The only conclusion we could draw was that God was telling us to phase out that part of our ministry. I think that realization struck us in two ways. First, we had been on some big tours that lots of artists would do anything to be on, but we just had a real empty feeling about it. To spend our next eight years making four more records and trying to get on the biggest and best tours just wasn't a goal we wanted to pursue. And I think we were driving our label crazy, too, because, obviously, they've got to pay the bills. They need whoever they sign to work and go across the country and do promo stuff and get on the biggest tours they can. I think we just realized that we were having this tension because our one thing can't be Watermark.

So we sat with an executive here in town because he goes to our church and he's a very dear friend. I think it just took him saying it out loud, but he asked if we had ever thought about phasing out Watermark, if we had thought about moving to a new season. It was clear to him that Nathan was made to produce records and that I am a mom and a worship leader, but it just took someone saying it out loud. At first we were like, "What does he know?" But the next day we knew that he was totally right. From there, it just started falling into place. When I told my family, it made sense to my mom, who just 3 years ago would probably have been crying about this. My kids just need me right now. This is a season where they need to be my number one ministry. Everything else needs to just fit into the margins. The first 5 years of Noah's life wasn't that way. He was always with us, but he was just along for the ride. And I think that's backwards. God has made it very clear to us that it needs to shift.

We built Nathan a studio in our basement and he has been working down there from 9-6 every day, taking on project after project. I'm speaking at some

That's pretty exciting. A little uncertain to some extent, but definitely something that God will honor. I'm very glad my wife is able to stay home with my boys - it's a great thing.

Yeah, it makes a huge difference. And I don't want to look back when I'm 45 only to realize that I missed it all. I'm really glad that God has brought it to my attention now so that we can be aware of it as we go into this new season. We are excited about it.

Are you going to continue to write at all?

Absolutely. Actually, it's funny you should ask because we just did a little independent five-song project. It's just called Christy Nockels and it's really somewhat of a bridge. We really did it for this Beth Moore thing, because I'm writing these new worship songs that I want to lead. And when people come to the record table, those are the songs they'll want. So we did this rough EP in our basement. I think I'm writing to lead worship because there have been some songs on my heart that I think are especially for that audience. It's been on the level of a grassroots movement that really feels like it's from my heart. It's weird. When you are under contract and you have a publishing agreement with somebody, writing is work - like, "Ugh! I have to come up with that many more songs for you." But right after the August 25th concert to record A Grateful People, I just felt that pressure release. I just started writing again in September and October, and it was so different. I just sat down at the piano, brought the five songs to Nathan and asked him to record them for me. He is really encouraging me to write, too, because he is in a different world right now with production. I think he's excited to see me writing without him. That sounds weird, but he loves that I'm doing things that are geared toward that age group of women. Of course, he doesn't feel called to young women's ministry.

(laughs)

I think we are both going to continue to write through the years. I would probably even say that in the years to come, I'll find some sort of deal as Christy Nockels singing worship music geared towards women. That's my gut feeling. But I have no idea when that will be. Hopefully not in ten years, because that will be a long time.

Well, I do have to point out that the title of your EP is just as original as "Nathan and Charlie"

(laughs)

Well, it is called Christy Nockels: A Few Days in February, I missed that part. We called it that because we picked literally three days in February, went down in our basement and recorded it. But it's not a "Watermark" project, it's a "Christy Nockels" release and it will only be available at our concerts. It's not going to be sold anywhere else and, hopefully, nobody will care.

Well, I think a lot of people will be happy to know that you are still going to record sometime in the near future. Your voice will definitely be missed otherwise.

Thank you, I appreciate that

What do you hope to leave as you legacy in music and in life?

I think my prayer is that people could look back and see that I wasn't focused on my own agenda. That's really been on my heart for the last year. When I turned 30 a year and a half ago I reached a point where I really felt that internal switch in me and I realized that I wasn't the newcomer anymore. I wasn't the new kid on the block and we weren't the new little group. I remember literally facing a decision between continuing to follow my own dreams or turning and looking for five or six young women around me that have a desire and a heart for worship, who want to be creative and who want to write music to glorify God and bring them with me. That is definitely my hope for a legacy, that I was just mentoring. I believe that is what we are called to do as women of God - it's Biblical. In Titus, it tells the older women teach the younger women and I think I always imagined the older women being like Sarah, Abraham's wife, when she was really old. But really those of us who are even just a little bit farther down the journey can still mentor younger people. We can reach out our hands to them. Also, I would never seek to mentor anyone or cultivate any sort of ministry outside my home, unless I'm taking care of the ones inside of my home. So I guess it's kind of two fold. I want to look to the interests of others, rather than seeking my own agenda - I think that is Philippians 2, looking to the interests of others and taking on the attitude of Christ. And also that I would be a servant. That's definitely my heart. Now, I don't always feel that way, every single day. . .

(laughs)

. . . but that's definitely in my heart and God's revealed that in different ways over the past couple of years.

It's something that we strive for. . .

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, now some fun questions. . . If life were a bowl of cereal, what type of cereal is yours full of?

Oh, I love cereal. I'm looking in my cereal cabinet

(laughs)

It'd have to be. . . you know what? Ever since I was little, I've liked Life cereal

(laughs)

I knew that would happen, easy answer. . .

(laughs)

I remember liking that since I was probably three years old and my kids love it now.

Definitely stood the test of time. So, what is your favorite hymn and why?

Probably "Great Is Thy Faithfulness," simply for what it says. I think for me worship is reflecting on His faithfulness. I think that is where I am in worship and when I'm moved, when I'm at church and begin to cry, it's always because I'm reflecting on His mercy or His faithfulness. To think what a wretched person I am and that He would save me and make me His bride. . . You know, I think that is just His faithfulness. That would definitely be my favorite.

That is a good one. What album would fans be surprised to know you own and enjoy?

I have to be careful with that

(laughs)

Well, I remember when Noah was a baby, I had a Backstreet Boys record called Black and Blue and we listened to it every day because it was the only record that would make Noah stop crying in the car. They had this song called "The Shape of My Heart" and if he was crying in the car, I would find the CD, put it in, and he would stop crying every single time.

(laughs)

I don't know if it was the bass or the beat of it or what, but he just loved it and he would stop crying. We were really embarrassed there for a while that we listened to Backstreet Boys. . .

It is somewhat surprising, I'll give you that. My three year old is really on a kick with the Jeremy Camp song "I'll Take You Back." Every time we get in the car he says, "Let me sing the Take Me Back song."

(laughs)

How cute, that's awesome.

So any last thoughts before I let you get back to your day?

We are not "retiring". We're still going to be out there doing what we were called to do. I think in the process of relinquishing this whole season of life as Watermark, we've realized that the gifts we have are truly His. He gave us these gifts and we are supposed to be good stewards of them. I think that He will open more opportunities for us to use them. He gave them and He always make a way for the giver. So we are definitely not retiring. We will be using our gifts to the best of our abilities. I don't know the word "retire" has bothered me several times

it probably makes you feel old. . .

(laughs)

Yeah, and it makes me feel like you're never going to do anything again. I'm ok with that, but at the same time, I don't think that is what is going on right now. You can't share every small detail in what is going on, especially with label stuff. They gave us their blessing when we left, but you don't want to share too much. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings either, but it's been a great transition and a really tough one at the same time. We also have to try to stop validating it to everyone. It's just something that you have to trust. We should do what God tells us to do. Just trust that. Go with it and don't worry about anything. It's cool to say that this is just one of those times in our lives. Watermark will always be with us, but it's cool to think of what might be next and that God doesn't have just one thing for us on the earth. He has many different seasons.