Ramblings of a songwriter... a conversation with Shawn McDonald
03-09-2006
by Brenten Gilbert

Thomas Merton once said that when a man has arrived in life, it's not that he understood everything, but that has nothing left to accomplish. Though no one is quite at that place in life, we can be content in our unripeness, knowing that in time we will ripen.

After eight years of performing music (six as an independent artist) you might be tempted to assume that Shawn McDonald has "arrived" as a musician, as a Christian, and as a man. As he'll tell you himself, however, he is just an average guy among us all, still growing, still learning, and still discovering life's mysteries.

I had the pleasure of chatting with Shawn over the phone and we talked about, among other things, his new album, traveling and American Idol. What follows, is the transcript of that conersation. . .

CMCentral.com (brenten gilbert): I noticed that you are officially not a new artist anymore.

Shawn McDonald: I guess yes, something like that.

(laughs)

Is that what happens when you get a second record, you aren't a new artist anymore?

I guess not. The whole GMA music awards thing was kind of a shocker.

Yeah, that was kind of a weird thing, I guess. I don't even really care, I mean God has a way of keeping my head on straight or something, I don't know. It's all been, not even a big deal, I don't even care. The Dove is just a piece of metal or plastic, I don't even know.

Yeah, who knows what those are made of.

(laughs)

So you have your new album coming out called Ripen. I've been listening to it a lot. It's some good stuff.

Thank you.

What would you like us to know about Ripen?

Well, I took a way more mature approach to this record. It was definitely very intentional, whereas I wrote Simply Nothing over the course of time. I never expected all those songs to end up on one record, so it wasn't real planned out. Going into Ripen, I had to write a whole record from start to finish, so it was different approach for me. I'd never done that before. So I guess I would say it is a lot more mature. I feel lyrically, spiritually, and musically - in all elements - I tried to step it up and just make a solid record. I hope people will understand and connect with it, not only enjoy with their ears but also inwardly and spiritually and what not. It's just kind of a record about my life, my experiences, and my relationship with God, so I'm excited about it. I'm excited to see what it does and if people get it.

Okay, great. Based on the main theme that I got from the album, have you been reading through the Left Behind series? or maybe the book of Revelations?

(laughs)

I wouldn't say that I have. I have read a couple of those books but it has been a while. I named one of the songs ["Rider on the White Horse"] out of something from Revelations, but it wasn't necessarily inspired by Revelations. It is definitely a theme, though.

I think anybody can look at the world today and see all the tragedy and all the weird stuff that is going on and realize that something is messed up. You know, something is not correct here. When it comes down to it, what's wrong is the fall of man. Sin is everywhere and there are wars going on everywhere and all this stuff. I know personally the closer I get to God, the less I want to be here and the more I want to be in His kingdom and the place that isn't so messed up. So that is definitely a theme I think you'll get.

I really long to go home, as a couple of my songs say. The record starts off with a song called "I Want to be Ready" - I put it there on purpose. I really felt that that is kind of the message that I want to give and that is where I wanted to start this record. That's kind of how I look at life. It's a process of getting ready, you know? We're learning to love and learning to live as God has called us to live. It's kind of a life journey, I guess. That's what I was hoping people would get so it's good to hear that it's a theme you got.

Yeah, I definitely got that theme and I also saw a running theme of being accepted and loved just as we are. I thought it was interesting how they kind of intertwined. Do you want to talk about how you see those two working together?

Sure, well I was doing Christian music as an indie artist for 6 years, but I was playing mostly secular venues. My fan base was half and half so it wasn't necessarily all Christians and it wasn't all non-Christians. So becoming a national Christian recording artist was kind of a new thing for me and one of the things that I've learned and experienced in that time period is that the church is just really different all over the United States. All over the world, really. People view God and see God in different ways depending on their culture, their surroundings and what is going on. It changes their perspective and even how they approach God. I've really encountered a lot of different views, I guess. Some views expect you to be a certain way and others see things differently. People want to put you in a box. They want to put you in their view and mold you into what they think you are or should be. And they're entitled to their opinion, but at the same time I'm entitled to mine. And the life that I own, the one that God has given me, is my responsibility. That is what it is kind of what the song "Free" is about. It's about learning to live freely in the light of God, not in the light of opinions. About not allowing people to gear or shift where I go but allowing God to direct that path. I think the church is really good at pushing people in the direction they want them to go, making them into what they think they should be. And I really fight that. I really don't want to be anybody other than the person God has created me to be and I feel a call to challenge not just the church, but people in general to deepen their lives - to think, to question, to ask and what not. So, you are right on, that is definitely a theme that is prevalent in my day to day life and something I'm trying to learn to live in.

That's a really cool perspective on life and obviously being on the road a lot you experience that a lot more than average people.

He certainly does. It never ceases to amaze me how different God can be to other people.

Yeah.

All this talk about bubbles and stuff... You talked about your independent days - and, by the way, I was a Shawny Mac fan back in the day.

really? (laughs) Wow! That's cool man. Awesome. Always glad to hear that.

. . .but since you are signed to Sparrow Records it kind of limits your distribution to specifically the Christian market, even though your music speaks really well to the mainstream market. There are a couple songs on the new album, in fact, that I think would really work well in that arena. Have you approached the label or discussed the potential, or thought about whether or not to branch out into the mainstream?

Well, you know, man, I'm not opposed to the mainstream world. I feel if I'm being honest to who God made me to be, I'm called to reach "people." I'm not called to Christians or just one type of people, I'm called to people. I feel like the instructions He gave us were, "Go into the world and spread the Gospel." To me, that means everybody. That part of it is hard. It's kind of a bummer that music gets put into one genre or one place, but it's just the way of it. That is one of the things I'm fighting to break out of. I don't know what that would look like in the future and I can't say that I'm trying to go secular or anything like that, because I'm not. I'm just trying to make music that reaches folks. The idea is definitely something we've talked about, and I think that if it is meant to go that way, it will. I think it will happen if it is supposed to. I was walking down the road with a couple of secular record labels prior to signing with Sparrow. I was talking with Columbia and Java and the reason I didn't go there was just that I didn't have peace about it. I really didn't. I didn't feel right there and I chose Sparrow because I felt that was where God led me. I really do believe that I'm where I'm supposed to be and God's hand is in it. To me, that is where I want to be. I hope to reach anybody, because I think all of us are lost to some extent. We are all trying to figure out our way. Even Christians that know Christ are still growing and still learning and discovering new things about God and about their own lives. I just look at people as people, you know? I feel like it is my job to deepen them and draw them into Him. So that is what I'm doing. I don't know, I do hope that it can go bigger places.

Maybe you just needed this more mature album under your belt before you were ready to move on.

Sure.

I also noticed on the album that there seems to be two distinct styles coming in and out. There is a kind of a raw, live feel on some of the songs and kind of cleanly produced sound for others. Was this intentional? I know you did use 2 producers. . .

Yeah, I don't know if I went in trying to get different feels, but using different producers definitely creates different music. Everybody makes and hears music differently. I feel like I wrote the songs that were inside of me, songs that were true to who I was at the time. I don't feel like I tried to make a certain type of music or make it all the same way. We went in and just made music and made it to a place where we felt good about it. I feel like we created good music.

You probably do get a couple of different feels, though. "Lovely" is about as raw as it gets. It is to the point that my vocals aren't even. . . there are some parts that I'm cracking pretty hard. When we recorded that song, I was sick and we recorded it as a scratch track, so I just did it live with a guitar and vocal and whatever. After listening back to it and hearing how it came out as just a live take, I just felt like there was something special happening there. And when you record it live like that, you can't go back and pull the vocal out and redo it because there's a cross recording from the two different mics, so we just chose to leave it. We felt like it kind of captured what we were going for. I guess on a musical side, it's probably riskier to leave it real pure and honest and raw like that. But at the same time, I think anyone that sees me live and knows what I do will understand. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, it's funny that you bring up "Lovely" because the first couple of times I listened to it I was like, man he really off. But as I listened to the lyrics and actually soaked it all in, I started to think that it was probably part of the whole effect of the song. I thought it really worked well, but it was one of those things where you feel nervous asking about it because you're like, "Man, were you really that off?"

(laughs)

What it came down to is that I was really sick. I was off, man. I was really off. We just felt that it was honest and something most people probably wouldn't put on their album. They want everyone to think that everything is good, everything is perfect. It's kind of the way that everybody seems to sugar coat everything to where it almost loses its heart. We didn't care about that kind of stuff.

I think it's great. I loved how it ended the album on a nice, thoughtful note - assuming, of course, it stays at the end of the album.

Yeah, it did, it stayed. The order of other songs actually changed, but that one is still at the same.

The single "Free" has been on iTunes for a while now. I know a lot of people are really excited at first because they thought it was a free download before they realized the song was called "Free."

(laughs)

Yeah, we talked through that a little bit. I kind of told the label, "You know that's what's going to happen. People are going to think that because it is called 'Free' that it's free." I don't know, though. We couldn't think of anything else to call it. I wasn't trying to deceive anybody.

Yeah it was just kind of funny. Everybody was like, "Free download of Shawn McDonald!" Then, "Oh, wait. It's a download of 'Free' by Shawn McDonald."

(laughs)

So what do you think about the whole digital music age where people can kind of pick and choose songs off of an album? You mentioned that this album is the first one you intentionally put the songs together to make an overall statement. . .

I see goods and bads in it. It's like anything. The digital world of music is nice because it's so easy for people to access. It takes them 2 seconds to find the song they want and download it. At the same time, it ups the bar, making it harder for the artists. If the people don't necessarily like some of the songs, they aren't going to buy the album, because they can buy it song-by-song now. So, I guess from that aspect, it is scary for the artist. But if the artist isn't making good enough music and people aren't buying the whole record, then that's their own fault. They need to take that seriously and step up their own art. I believe in making good art and music and making things I'm passionate about. I hope that I've made a product, if you want to call it that, or a record that's good enough for people to want the whole thing. Hopefully, they won't just want just a couple of songs, but that is possible. And if that is all they want, then so be it. They can have those couple songs. It's a new approach, but it's the way everything is going. It's like anything new. You just learn to adapt to it or you'll get left behind because of it.

It's kind of tough though, because you almost lose the concept of a full album when people start picking it apart like that. . .

That part kind of gets to me. I am still a fan of records. I still buy records. I'll buy them on iTunes sometimes, but for the most part, if I can, I'll go down to the record store and buy it. I like having the artwork. I like to have it in my hands, to see it and be able to throw it into my cd player and do whatever with it. It definitely adds a whole new element to the whole market, though.

Speaking of the internet, you have some video footage floating around these days. Some tour footage as well as a couple shots from the Live in Seattle session. Is there a DVD in the works?

There is a DVD that we made of the live show. I'm not entirely sure what we are going to do with it, though. I would like to get it pressed and make it accessible to folks. It seems like people really responded well to the actual live version, but I don't know man. I don't have a "yes or no" answer to that question yet, but we hope that eventually it will become like something that I sell at my live shows. I don't know if it'll make it to the stores. It is hard to tell.

That's cool. It's something I'd like to see anyways.

Yeah. The little videos, the live footage stuff, we are kind of into that right now. We have a lot of fun doing that actually. We are probably going to put up a new one tonight. We have a couple little digital video recorders and we've just kind of been having fun and making little knick-knacks. It's a good way to show a different side to who you are and, in my opinion, it kind of brings it back home. It shows people that you're a normal Joe. We might be more on national level, but we are just normal guys that have fun, love God, love music and all that fun stuff. The digital world has opened a whole new door, just a whole new avenue, that we can take our music and whatnot. One of the things I am working on right now, when I get home and have some time, I'm going to sit down and make little videos of me playing all the songs. At least the songs off the first record to start. I'm playing them all to kind of teach kids how to play them. Show them where I capo and what chords I'm using. Almost like an instructional video. I guess there's a songbook that is supposed to teach them the song but whoever transposed it didn't keep in mind that I use capos and stuff like that. It's transposed mathematically correctly, but not how I would actually play it. So that is one of the projects we are going to do and probably start posting them up on MySpace. Kids are always asking how you play certain songs, so that's another place we can explore a little bit.

That's a cool idea. So I've got a couple of fun questions for you.

Cool.

First off what is your take on American Idol?

(laughs)

American Idol? I can't even admit that I've watched a full episode. I don't think I've ever sat down and watched a whole one. I've seen bits and pieces. In my opinion, it's just another marketing scheme. They take these random kids and make them a star, you know, and that's cool. But coming from where I come from, I've been doing this for eight years and, in my opinion, you don't just make a star over night. At least not music that will last and live on. It's possible, there is stuff that happens, but I don't know. Man, I don't really know what I think about it. I don't hate it but I don't watch it either and I don't know that I would necessarily participate in it. If I was like an independent artist, I wouldn't go and audition for it or anything.

Well it's always a hot topic you know and they are starting off a new season so. . .

(laughs) Yeah.

So if you had a celebrity play list on iTunes what would be on it?

It's funny that you ask, because I just made a celebrity play list for iTunes. I sent it in, it's going to be coming out. . .

(laughs)

Sounds good. Sounds like my play lists, all over the place.

That's awesome man. So, to be kind of random, how did you hear about my music, back in the day?

Actually, it had to be through mp3.com. I was checking out Paul Wright's stuff when he was looking for a deal and you guys were always kind of tied together.

Okay. Yeah, that's cool.

I know I was really excited when saw that Sparrow had signed you. Like, "Shawn McDonald got signed!" and everyone else was asking, "Who's that?"

(laughs)

That's awesome. Yeah Paul and I go way back. We are good buddies. It's been fun. We've kind of pushed each other along in this whole thing..

Well, it's worked. But, if you were a fancy jelly bean, what flavor would you be?

(laughs) A fancy jelly bean. Well, let's see here, because I love jelly bellys. I'm trying to think of what flavors I like. I think I would probably be like a boysenberry. I don't know, kind of random, but I like that one. It's not too sweet, not too sour, just kind of right there in the middle.

Perfect. So where can our readers find out more about you and your music?

Well they can obviously go to the website which is ShawnMcDonaldMusic.com. But MySpace is probably where I am most active. That's where I tend to spend the most time. The great thing about MySpace - and I was on mp3.com prior - is the access and the easiness of it being so available. It's so easy to throw up something new really quick. A lot of times websites are a little more on the complicated side, not as easy to update and whatnot, so I tend to go there. Plus, the amount of people in myspace is limitless you know? I mean it's just a huge place. There is a lot of opportunity for growth there. To get fans that you wouldn't get on a regular basis and I've even noticed since I've had my stuff on there, it's grown. I've noticed at my shows I'm getting a more diverse crowd coming in and I'm thinking that a lot of them aren't necessarily Christians. It's exciting for me to see that I'm reaching people that might not normally hear the music because of the label that gets put on to it or because you would only find it in the "Christian" section of the store or whatever. I would definitely draw people there or the website.

Yeah, definitely no labels on MySpace. You can just browse and stumble upon it all.

Yeah I think that is what I love about it. You can definitely find the crap on there, but you can find a lot of good things too. I mean it's just kind of an example of life. There is crap everywhere you go. You kind of just have to pick through it and avoid it, just like you do on there, but I look at it as a good opportunity and a tool to reach people that you wouldn't normally reach.

Definitely. So do you have any closing thoughts? Plug for the album? Parting advice? Parting shots? Whatever?

(laughs)

Closing thoughts . . . Man, I don't know. I've got a quote for you, I guess. It is a little on the deep side, but it's something that has been really hitting home lately for me. I may be wrong on this, but I think it's St. Irenaeus who said it. He said that the glory of God is man fully alive. I've really been thinking about that quote a lot and really trying to take it in and grasp what he's saying. The thing that I'm learning is that God is perfect. God has everything that He needs and everything revolves around Him. But as for us, we are very imperfect and what I'm realizing is that God doesn't need us. He doesn't need anything and so our lives - that is kind of the whole purpose of Jesus. He came to set people free and bring them alive and show them true life. He came to teach them about love and His ways so that is one of the things that I think I'm trying to learn to grasp myself. I want to learn how to glorify God with my life. Becoming alive and living life in the way that I think He intended us to live it.

Very cool. Well, I want to thank you for your time.

You too, man. Thanks for taking time to listening to me ramble about whatever. . .